This topic contains 13 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by 6 years, 3 months ago.
- Matching the BPMs doesn’t mean that the beats are in sync. That’s a good place to start. It’s easiest (I have never used CDJs but I learned manual beatmatching for peace of mind via this website’s course – How to DJ Fast) to, with two tracks you know are at 128 bpm, place the track you are bringing in at 126, and the other at 128. You know the 126 is going to be the one behind. Otherwise it can be hard to tell which beat is out front, and which is behind. You can then adjust the pitch fader/tempo adjust up slowly until they are perfect as your ears can tell.Thats what I love about DDJing. My mixes in Traktor are tighter than my ears can even detect and as good as anything I hear in clubs or in podcasts/internet radio. It frees me up to worry more about other things in the mix: track volumes, eqs, using filters or FX, etc… I’ve only been at this a couple months. I highly recommend Digital DJ Tips Course.Honestly, now that you can use Pioneer CDJs to actually control Traktor, I think it is the CDJ swan song. Prominent DJs I know, buy all their music digitally, then burn it to CDs for club use. Why bother anymore? Bring your laptop, use the CDJs and the clubs mixer, maybe add an X1/F1 or two, and off you go. With the X1, you really don’t even need the CDJ.This is a classic argument whether its having to walk to school versus ride the bus, use a payphone versus cellphone, or go to the library reference section versus the using the internet. DJs who have half a brain can see this and are adjusting as the technology comes along. I practiced a little, and feel like I could do it if I needed to. Not as good as some old school DJs of course, but, do they understand the finer points of Traktor Pro’s preferences or how to map a DJ controller or pretty much any USB/MIDI device to do exactly what you want it to in the software? Probably not.Out with the old, in with the new. C’est la vie!Hey,Just as Traktor doesn’t always get the BPM right all of the time, neither do the CDJs. Too often they get it wrong. But, if you used the bpm count in the display, you will have already told yourself that they are identical or real close and that might get in the way of getting them matched if they are actually a bit further apart than you think they are.I prefer just throwing it in and doing the manual beatmatch for every track if I use CDJs. I have to admit that I don’t play that much EDM but a lot of earlier stuff that isn’t as tight on the BPM anyway and has a tendency to fluctuate throughout the songs.And if your CDJs only display whole number BPM (so 128 instead of 128.1) the margin is way too big anyway. You could be having a 0.9 BPM difference even though both displays say they are at 128.The sync button in Traktor (or other software) makes sure that they are identical in BPM down to 1,2 or (in some cases) 3 digits behind the comma. 128,45 on your master gives you 128,45 on your slave.As for why some DJs have these issues … much discussed here on the forum. I personally worry about myself most of the time and as long as my customers are happy I don’t worry too much. To each his own I say.Greetinx,
C.Yep 2 songs having the same BPM has nothing to do if they are matched or not.
Also CDJs get the BPM wrong quite often (especially older ones and from cheap brands).I have no idea about the whole sync discussion, I do not think I even used the button in my last 10 gigs or so…
However I admit I have a little fallen in love with Serato’s Waveforms… but mainly for cuing and finding spots faster.Terry is right about the BPM on CDJ’s not being accurate, The CDJ2000 reads to 2 decimal point whereas the CDJ900 doesn’t but both can be slightly out. This can esasily be noticed when you set to loops in beat as they will often drift. As for vinyl DJ’s I knew alot of old skool DJ’s who would right the BPM on the records and then it was only a matter of adjusting the pitch to the correct setting +/- % which really is no different to the CDJ read out, it was only a matter of knowing math. I don’t think CD players will die out just yet as they’re the back up should a DJ have a software crash mid set.well cdjs read the bpms accurately 99% of the times. count and match. it is a technique learn it, use it
vynil,cds,digital no matter what beatmaching is a skill as is scratching even if you don’t use it it is nice to know how to do itlearn how to manual beat match, it gives a greater feeling of accomplishment and you’re not dependent on technology, you’ll feel much more confident as a DJ. I hate using the sync button, even though I use a controller, though it’s definitely useful in some situations (like 4 deck techno mixes ect).I knew guys who would put all their music through ProTools or Live and would beatmap them and pitch shift them to one BPM. They burn them all to CDJ and thus would spend the whole night barely touching the pitch slider.I think you should learn to manual beatmatch, mainly for the big reasons we always talk about like when your sync fails you. However, I have no issue with using sync. The rule in my book is your set should sound solid, period.In all honesty this discussion is at this point beating a dead horse with a tank.Sync is here to stay and it’s a valuable tool,people need to get over it and people need to stop encouraging people who don’t approve of the faeture to speak up.No one really cares weather you use the sync button or not,DJing is about the music,weather it’s digital djing using CDJs,controllers,vinyl,old school with vynil or just djing with a laptop,it is always about the music.nick greek, post: 37753, member: 2957 wrote: well cdjs read the bpms accurately 99% of the times. count and match. it is a technique learn it, use it
vynil,cds,digital no matter what beatmaching is a skill as is scratching even if you don’t use it it is nice to know how to do it99%? Traktor doesn’t even get it right that often…It’s a good way to get the idea of beat matching in your head but it’s far far far from foolproof. Like someone said use your ears not your eyes.Getting BPMs correctly 99% of the time? Holy shish, what type are you using? The first CDJs I used were Pioneer 850s and OMG that BPM reader would jump every 5 seconds. It would be at 128, 5 seconds later it would be at 130 then back to 128 and I’d be like WTF? I use Traktor majority of the time and people automatically assume I use the sync button but I don’t, I’ve even threatened to mutilate my controller to where it won’t have a sync button, but then there’s still sync in the program *shrugs*. I’m opposed to using sync although I have used it when I first started DJing with VDJ. Never have I used it when I switched to Traktor though.
Pitch control WTF. DJing Discussion. Pitch control WTF. Load a track with a bpm 125.00 and set your cdj pitch to '0' Load a track with a bpm of 123.00. Set your cdj pitch to +1.6%. When I first started off I had pioneer cdj's and I had the pitch down to where I knew where I had to move it to do plus 1. Thats why I always thought.
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I’m fortunate enough to be able to choose what set-up I prefer to DJ on, and I’ve just made a decision that seems to be against the flow out there at the moment: to stop using CDJs and USB sticks and go back to using software and a controller. This seems counterintuitive as there’s an unwritten expectation that suggests we should strive towards DJing on “proper” club gear, but it turns out that personally, I’d play on a controller every time.
I experimented and went the CDJ / USB sticks route for a few gigs recently, and contrary to the whole “one day I’ll play on CDJs” idea, for me personally using this set-up felt like moving backwards, not forwards, like I was DJing with gear from the past instead of the present (or even the future).
My DJing background
First, let’s be clear: I’ve DJed on everything. I started mixing cassette tapes, moved on to vinyl, and then used every one of the CDJ models starting from the CDJ-500 during my time putting together and mixing club compilation albums.
Then like many DJs, I took a break from DJing. The bug never left me, however, and after a few years away from the decks I started to dabble again, this time going the digital route. I never used a full digital set-up before, so I went for it: After taking advice from a friend (our very own Phil Morse), I decided on Traktor, went for the Kontrol S4, and was instantly hooked. To me, all the creative limitations of vinyl that contributed to my boredom with DJing were smashed. DJing was fun again and the possibilities were endless.
I honed in on the platform, mastered the techniques, and became such a passionate advocate of digital DJing that it led me to collaborate with Digital DJ Tips on the Scratching For Controller DJs course before joining the team full time to help others learn DJing on digital gear.
I learned to use all the major DJ apps and controllers, but always stuck with using a laptop. Until recently that is…
Why I tried using CDJs and USB sticks
I DJ every week on a radio station called BeachGrooves and have always used either my Traktor Kontrol S4 controller or recently the Pioneer DJ DDJ-RX with Rekordbox DJ. The station has a CDJ set-up in the studio that the other DJs use (it’s an XDJ-1000 set, but you get the idea), and a few things happened that made me ditch the laptop in favour of using CDJs and USBs.
First, we had a big launch for the station’s new frequency that’s broadcasting in Ibiza, and around 10 of the DJs were together in the studio. I experienced what controller DJs go through once in a while – that feeling that all the other DJs were looking down on me and my “DJ toy”. One of them even laughed and pointed to my DJ controller bag saying: “What are you doing? Carrying the whole club around with you?” I smiled proudly and said: “Well, I DJ with a controller so I have to take it with me somehow!”
As much as I would like to say it didn’t bother me at all, it did. My thoughts quickly turned to: “I can play on any gear you put in front of me, I bet you couldn’t do that. I choose to play on a controller, buddy!”
The second trigger for my jump to CDJs was getting a gig at a beach club near where I live, where there were CDJ-2000NXS players in a bespoke DJ booth with just no room for controllers. Lastly, a buddy in the radio station I DJ at said: “Let’s do a back-to-back show one night using the XDJs,” so I thought: “I already use Rekordbox for track management so this will be easy. I’m going to try to make the jump to being a full CDJ / USB DJ.”
And it was easy – Rekordbox music management is fantastic, and it just took a little rethinking and planning to create the playlists I’d need for gigs and to sync them to a USB drive. I used our in-house CDJ set-up to practise on so I could learn how to navigate around folders quickly, how to search and sort tracks, how to set loops and cue points, and so on. Over two weeks, I played five sets using just CDJs and USB drives. They were fine with no major issues, but something just felt a bit… boring.
So I switched back. And I thought it would be good to share in full my final five reasons why:
5 Reasons I Prefer DJ controllers
- DJ library convenience – Managing USBs and hard drives is an extra step in the workflow that requires thought and time. I prefer grabbing my laptop and hooking it up to my controller, knowing that I’ve got everything I need there. In fact, in the few minutes before I start my set (and even during it) I can create new playlists, edit them, search for last minute tracks to add to the set, fix beatgrids, and so on
- Track previews – This was a big one for me. I like to quickly skip around tracks in the browser window and preview them in my headphone cue to remind myself of the vibe and whether it’s a suitable next track. This is easy to do in Rekordbox DJ, plus you don’t need to load the track onto a deck – you just click around the waveform in the preview player, and it doesn’t mark the track as “played”. It’s a different story on a CDJ: you have to load each track and manually search through it. It’s more time consuming, and causes me to “settle” for a tune because I got bored repeatedly loading tracks and running out of time to make my choice. And if I played the track I was previewing for longer than 45 seconds, it marked it as “played” whether I decided to play it in full or not. You don’t get this with the preview in Rekordbox DJ
- Track search and sort options – In fairness to Pioneer, the track search functions on the Nexus and Nexus2 systems are much better than CDJs of old, but searching using the touchscreens is still nowhere near as convenient or intuitive as searching on a laptop with a full Qwerty keyboard You can search tracks in your collection by whatever tiny piece of information pops into your head and you’ll get the result instantly. Also, I can configure the browser section on the laptop screen to show me whatever I need all at the same time: artist, title, BPM, key, cover art, comments, energy level, all sortable with a single click. The CDJs’ screen size means they just can’t offer this and getting all this info is clunky and too many clicks away for my liking
- Built-in recording capability – I like to record all my DJ sets. I like the raw recording of the music, meaning no voice overs and jingles, just a pure “internal” recording as mixed in the software. This just isn’t possible with a CDJ / DJM setup. You can only record the mixer output and you have to have an external recorder to be able to do it. When using a laptop / controller, it’s a “set and forget” affair with just the touch of a button
- Added performance features (eg Slicer / FX options / samplers) – Again, CDJs are getting better, but there’s only a tiny percentage of clubs that have the full Nexus / Nexus2 set-up, so for the most part the only options you have for performance are loops, slip mode and reverse, and whatever FX the mixer has. Even then you’d be lucky if it’s all connected by Pro DJ Link and beatsynced. Doing two hours of house tunes with only these features to play with can get pretty boring (at least for me), so the power of having all the performance features that DJ software and controllers have to offer in one unit is something I find far more interesting and exciting
DJ controllers are in my future…
So I decided to go back to using my DJ controller, and will continue to use it apart from in situations where I don’t have the option to do so. I know there are incredible DJs out there who have mastered the CDJ / DJM set-up and do amazingly creative stuff with it, but even with the CDJ-2000NXS2s (which are the closest to a full-featured DJ controller that Pioneer has got to), I felt handcuffed in certain areas. The whole experience was quite inconvenient, and I felt limited both in track choice and in creative performance options.
You may be asking: “But what about using CDJs in HID mode?” HID promises plug and play connectivity of your laptop running DJ software to be controlled by the CDJs and mixer, which should really be the answer to most of my gripes listed above, and it works OK with the Nexus2 system and Rekordbox DJ (though not currently with Traktor or Serato)… but the most surprising thing about it is that it’s even less “integrated” than using a USB stick.
Pioneer’s Rekordbox DJ is a fantastic piece of DJ software, and works flawlessly with native controllers such as the DDJ-RX and DDJ-RZ, but hook it up to a full Pioneer CDJ / DJM Nexus set-up? It’s not great: no waveforms on the CDJs, track search is more limited than using USB, and no control over internal FX or performance functions. Hopefully, Pioneer DJ is working to improve this, but at the time of this writing it just isn’t a wholly satisfying experience compared to using Rekordbox DJ with a controller.
Finally…
So what’s the lesson? Well, if you aspire to play on CDJs and a mixer, go ahead! You’ll rarely be “caught out” in any DJ booth as this gear is pretty standard in this day and age.
Likewise, if you are DJing creatively with a controller, our advice is as it’s always been: Don’t concern yourself with “getting to CDJs one day”, just continue to concentrate on the important stuff of being a great DJ using whatever set-up you have – and don’t be afraid to insist that you use your controller at gigs.
Or better still – learn on both! For me, I actually like to know I can jump on a set of CDJs and play a decent set if it’s required of me – but it sure wouldn’t be my choice for my most creative or spontaneous performances.
What are your thoughts on this? Have you gone on to CDJs from using DJ controllers? What’s that been like for you? Or would you rather DJ with controllers above all else? Let us know below.